I like how at the end the Cooperative panelist points out that the "free market" around the world DOES NOT provide adequate health for anyone. Great point.
Sunday, October 4, 2009
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I like how at the end the Cooperative panelist points out that the "free market" around the world DOES NOT provide adequate health for anyone. Great point.
23 comments:
Where in the world is there a free market in health care?
Wherever selfishness has been allowed to flourish.
Ah, so no specific location or time.
I'm not the one who has argued that selfishness = capitalism. If it does, then all of history has been capitalism and all the shit that has been history has been the result of capitalism. For example, slavery is the result of capitalism.
Really?
If you argue that "capitalism" is based on selfishness, yes.
Well, fortunately, I argue capitalism equals individual liberty.
Same result.
No, because you claim corporate influence over government is capitalism, but government is able to physically coerce people to do what they would otherwise not do, which infringes on an individual's liberty. So by your skewed perspective of the world, capitalism does not equal individual liberty.
...and the result is different, as there would be no government coercion.
"No, because you claim corporate influence over government is capitalism, but government is able to physically coerce people to do what they would otherwise not do, which infringes on an individual's liberty. So by your skewed perspective of the world, capitalism does not equal individual liberty."
Ah, but it enhances the liberty of those who are doing the infringing, which is the inherent problem with "liberty".
"it enhances the liberty of those who are doing the infringing"
What enhanced the liberty of those doing the infringing and how is their liberty enhanced?
Liberty = the freedom to do anything one wants.
"liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." - Thomas Jefferson
That is the socialist's definition of liberty.
Then you understand that liberty does not meen "the freedom to do anything one wants." And if we accept the given definition of liberty, and that capitalism is a result of liberty, than corporate influence and control over a government with a monopoly of physical coercion is not capitalism.
"Then you understand that liberty does not meen "the freedom to do anything one wants." And if we accept the given definition of liberty, and that capitalism is a result of liberty, than corporate influence and control over a government with a monopoly of physical coercion is not capitalism."
That is the socialist, moralistic definition of liberty. Liberty, in its non-socialist form, is unobstructed action.
"That is the socialist, moralistic definition of liberty. Liberty, in its non-socialist form, is unobstructed action."
Then Thomas Jefferson was a socialist..lol. You love to blend terms together when it benefits you and keep definitions rigid when it benefits you. You're a hypocrite through and through.
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Whoops!
"Then Thomas Jefferson was a socialist..lol. You love to blend terms together when it benefits you and keep definitions rigid when it benefits you. You're a hypocrite through and through."
So was Hitler!
Huh?
I do not think capitalism = liberty.
Capitalism has always existed since 1 caveman traded his stick for a stone from another caveman. Or cave person perhasp i should say.
Our lack of imagination in developing any other method of "making a living" brought us to what we call capitalism in the modern world of today.
Liberty is an illusion as at no time is one human being not beholden to another human being at some time for some reason or pupose.
Pure liberty can never exist
Even the liberty as defined by Libertarians requires the dogma of someone to define what liberty is. The momnet you define it, you lose it!
"Capitalism has always existed since 1 caveman traded his stick for a stone from another caveman."
That's an economy; and yes an economy has always existed. The problem is 1 man has never (for the most part) been able to trade his stick to another man for an agreed amount of stone. This freedom is capitalism and liberty is a prerequisite of capitalism and vice-versa.
"Our lack of imagination in developing any other method of "making a living" brought us to what we call capitalism in the modern world of today."
Wrong. That you (and the majority of people) assume that we must consciously develop a method of making a living exemplifies your lack of imagination. Capitalism does not exist in the modern world today; therefore equating what it means to make a living in the world today with capitalism is FALSE.
"Liberty is an illusion as at no time is one human being not beholden to another human being at some time for some reason or pupose.
Pure liberty can never exist
Even the liberty as defined by Libertarians requires the dogma of someone to define what liberty is. The momnet you define it, you lose it!"
Wrong. Simply because man defines liberty does not mean liberty man-made. It is simply identified. Liberty is "unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others." Now, you can take that quote and give it a different word, but the meaning is what is important and to assume we must always have the ability to physically intervene with the actions a man who commits no crime is ridiculous and there is no credible argument for such an assumption.. You're a product of your upbringing and you cannot see outside of the only world with which you have existed. You lack imagination.
"Liberty is an illusion as at no time is one human being not beholden to another human being at some time for some reason or pupose.
Pure liberty can never exist
Even the liberty as defined by Libertarians requires the dogma of someone to define what liberty is. The momnet you define it, you lose it!"
HORRIBLE.
There is such a thing as physical liberty, economic liberty, and political liberty. Existential liberty may not exist, but that does not mean that the above liberties do not exist.
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